3D InCites Member Spotlight: How Advanced Packaging is Transforming the Semiconductor Landscape

The 3D InCites Member Spotlight episode features exclusive conversations with industry leaders at IMAPS Device Packaging Conference 2025, exploring the cutting-edge of semiconductor packaging innovation and domestic manufacturing expansion.

• Rex Anderson of Micross details their RESHAPE program funding and Integra acquisition, establishing them as North America's largest domestic OSAT
• Calvin Cheung of ASE explains how advanced packaging enables AI infrastructure while reducing power consumption by 40-60% through vertical power delivery. He also describes silicon photonics emerging as a game-changer for data transmission, using light instead of electrons for faster, more energy-efficient signal integrity
• Keith Felton of Siemens discusses digital twin technology allowing early predictive analysis during package prototyping to prevent costly downstream engineer change orders - or ECOs.
• Vahid Akhavan highlights PulseForge's photonic debonding technology partnerships for clean, high-yield wafer release
• Bernd Krafthoefer and Florian Lechner, ERS Electonic representatives,  share insights on their new European competence center and sub-micron photonic debonding capabilities for 300mm wafers.

Join us next week as we explore supply chain resilience in the semiconductor capital equipment sector with Barry O'Dowd from Kuehne+Nagel and special guest Kamal Aluwalia, CEO of Resilinc. Learn more about member benefits at 3DInCites.com/memberships.

IMAPS Device Packaging Conference
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Chapters

• 0:00 IMAPS Sponsorship Introduction
• 22:38 Micross: Building a Domestic OSAT
• 47:38 ASC: AI and Silicon Photonics Impact
• 1:08:46 Siemens: Digital Twins in Package Design
• 1:37:23 PulseForge: Photonic Debonding Technology
• 2:01:19 ERS Electronic: European Advanced Packaging
• 2:27:15 Podcast Closing and Next Episode Preview

Transcript

Francoise von Trapp: 0:00

This episode of the 3D Insights podcast is sponsored by IMAPS, the premier global association for microelectronics advanced packaging enthusiasts. A membership in IMAPS helps your company grow its advanced packaging workforce through professional education and networking, advances your brand and supports building relationships. Imaps helps you learn, connect and collaborate. Learn more at imapsorg. Hi there, I'm Francoise von Trapp, and this is the 3D Insights Podcast. Hi everyone, this week we are recording live from the IMAPS Device Packaging Conference 2025 in Phoenix, arizona, and we've invited some of our member companies our premium and elite member companies to join us on the podcast to share their perspectives of this year's event and update us on some of their company's activities. So my first guest is Rex Anderson of Micross. Welcome to the podcast, rex.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 1:05

Thank you, thanks for having me.

Francoise von Trapp: 1:07

So before we dive into a few questions, can you just explain a little bit about what Micross AIT is and your role there?

Rex Anderson, Micross: 1:15

Sure, so we're Micross Advanced Interconnect Technology and we provide wafer-level packaging solutions, for it's an open-source foundry. We've been doing that since about the mid-'90s. Micros as a whole provides high-reliability packaging solutions to folks in the Dib, even consumer electronics companies as well.

Francoise von Trapp: 1:42

Okay, and your role there.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 1:43

I'm the director of operations there and also the technology lead for our Cornerstone Reshape Award. It's enabling us to bring up a 300 millimeter line and a TSV finishing line.

Francoise von Trapp: 1:54

So the 300 millimeter line and TSV finishing line has just been in the past couple of years.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 1:59

That's correct.

Francoise von Trapp: 2:00

And you received government funding not through the CHIPS Act but through was it? The Reshape program?

Rex Anderson, Micross: 2:07

That's right. It was appropriated money that was to address the lack or to secure up a supply chain and advanced packaging. It was pre-CHIPS, if you will.

Francoise von Trapp: 2:20

Yeah, okay, so that money has all been distributed and you don't have to worry about not getting it.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 2:24

That's right. Yeah, okay, so that money has all been distributed and you don't have to worry about not getting it. That's right. So we are awarded around $134 million. A little north of $80 million has been funded. Okay, and so that $80 million includes two main elements, both of which we've mentioned. One is to bring up a 300-millimeter bumping line and the other a TSV finishing line as well, and then there's other elements that could be funded along the way.

Francoise von Trapp: 2:47

Okay, and when do you find out or receive the last of that funding? Is that at all in flux with the change of administration?

Rex Anderson, Micross: 2:55

It could be. We've had some very positive meetings even in the last few weeks. But the positive thing is, as we've executed on this program, money does become available and the other elements that we're talking about, you know they're incremental to what we're doing. So you know there's a lot of opportunities to. You know, bring on a certain piece of equipment, or a few pieces of equipment to really enable some other capabilities.

Francoise von Trapp: 3:19

So I think people might be confused sometimes when they hear about funds being appropriated or awarded or distributed and thinking that you get this big chunk of money all at once and it's not how it works right. You get certain amounts and then you have to meet certain criteria to get the next.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 3:36

That's right. So there's milestones that you have to meet and then you know, as you meet those milestones, you're having to show evidence that you've met those milestones. There's, you know, frequent reviews by the government, whether that's remote or in person, and then as you meet those milestones, then you're funded for that.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 3:57

Okay, and so far you guys are on target, we are on target, yeah, in fact, for the 300-millimeter line all the equipment was ordered and we're receiving that equipment right now. So we anticipate having that 300-millimeter line installed before the end of this year.

Francoise von Trapp: 4:12

Okay, and another recent piece of news is that you've acquired Integra Now. Integra was an independent OSAT based in Kansas, right?

Rex Anderson, Micross: 4:24

Kansas and California, that's right.

Francoise von Trapp: 4:29

And are you acquiring the whole company?

Rex Anderson, Micross: 4:31

Yes, absolutely so. You know that's a key acquisition. You know our group, which is headquartered in Melville, new York, headed by Vince Buffa, he's really made some strategic acquisitions over the years and really grown Micros to provide kind of a full suite and full solution for the high reliability market and Integra is just the latest of that market. And Integra is just the latest of that. You know there's a lot of synergies between what they do and what we had some existing capabilities within Micros but they also bring more capabilities in the back end and packaging that we necessarily didn't have. They fulfill that and it really solidifies Micros as the domestic OSAT here in the United States.

Francoise von Trapp: 5:26

That's excellent.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 5:27

Yeah, I can say too that you know Integra. We've worked with them in the past, so in a lot of ways they were a competitor before this but they were also a customer too. Bringing them on board will take down a few extra barriers that maybe had been there in the past, and that only benefits our customer base.

Francoise von Trapp: 5:47

As part of the acquisition, you get their facilities and their staff right, Absolutely yeah. So now you've expanded, micross has a facility in North Carolina, but also in Florida, right?

Rex Anderson, Micross: 5:58

We have quite a few sites around the world. So for this conference the sites that are most important is the North Carolina facility where we do wafer level interconnect. We have wafer probe and test in California at STS. So if you think about our customer base, wafers coming out of the foundry can get probed at STS in California, come to us for wafer level interconnect and then go down to Apopka yes, in California Come to us for wafer-level interconnect and then go down to Apopka, florida, to get diced and assembled down there. So a full turnkey solution post-foundry. And Integra is adding to that because they have test capability, they have the back-end capability as well.

Francoise von Trapp: 6:37

Okay, well, that's excellent. So are you all consolidated around the world or around the country?

Rex Anderson, Micross: 6:41

Around the world and country. So we have, you know, a site up in Manchester that does component modification.

Francoise von Trapp: 6:47

UK, manchester, uk or Manchester, new Hampshire, new Hampshire, yes, new Hampshire, okay.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 6:52

So we do have a couple of sites in the UK as well that do similar things that Apopka and Manchester does. We even, you know, have a diode company that we purchased down in Reynosa, mexico, and we have counterfeit mitigation in Clearwater. So we have quite a few diverse sites that provide a really full card of applications and solutions for our customer base.

Francoise von Trapp: 7:18

Okay, and so this makes you the largest OSOT in North America.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 7:22

I think that's safe to say right now, until Amcor and TSMC.

Francoise von Trapp: 7:28

Well, hold on to it while you have it, that's right.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 7:30

We'll take it.

Francoise von Trapp: 7:33

All right. So where can people go to learn more?

Rex Anderson, Micross: 7:35

Well, you can go to mycrosscom. You can find me on LinkedIn, you can email me if you'd like. Rexanderson at mycrosscom. So I'd love to talk to you more about it.

Francoise von Trapp: 7:45

Okay, well, we'll put that in the show notes.

Rex Anderson, Micross: 7:47

Thank you so much.

Francoise von Trapp: 7:47

Thanks again for joining me, okay. Okay, my next guest is from our elite member, asc. I'm speaking with Calvin Chung. Welcome to the podcast, calvin. Thank you, it's great to have you here. Can you, before we dive in, explain a little bit about your role at ASC?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 8:09

I joined ASC 20 years ago, okay, and I'm a VP of Engineering and Business Development, so I'm involved in most of the ASC technology development and I think the last few years, the most recent years, I've been focused on silicon electronics, power integrations and AI with the large infrastructures, meaning data center guys and networking guys.

Francoise von Trapp: 8:39

So your job is to really keep your finger on the heartbeat, what's going on, and decide what's the next thing that ASC needs to develop.

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 8:47

Part of it and also we are working directly with some of our key customers to develop and understand that technology.

Francoise von Trapp: 8:55

Okay Now, ai has been a very big topic for the last few years. I would say Every time we go to an event, there's a lot of discussion about how AI is driving the industry, and AI is the reason heterogeneous integration and advanced packaging is finally taking off. So what are you thinking are some of the most critical issues surrounding AI at the moment?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 9:21

I think the infrastructure, right Infrastructure we're talking about a chip, silicon designs and also all the hardware and the backend support for AI. So we typically call frontend and backends, and the frontend meaning the chip, designs and also function. The backend we call people like ASC, the OSETs.

Francoise von Trapp: 9:48

Right, okay, so it's been really driving advanced packaging. What are the benefits of advanced packaging to AI modules?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 9:57

I think advanced packaging more and more becomes an enabler for AI. I mean, you know silicon comes out. We're talking about high bandwidth and high speed and if strictly rely on silicon it would be very expensive. But package plays a major role to reduce costs and also enhance the AI performance and infrastructures.

Francoise von Trapp: 10:24

So one of the things that I've been hearing a lot about lately that's been very concerning is the amount of energy that AI consumes. Can advanced packaging help with that?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 10:35

Definitely. I think part of the package infrastructure can help is in terms of power delivery. I think we're working on a lot of the latest technology that's doing so-called vertical power delivery the beginning of the power delivery and all the way to the chip. And using vertical power delivery you can save anywhere up to 40% to 60% of the power.

Francoise von Trapp: 11:02

So do you remember last year at ECTC, where they were talking about using silicon photonics, and I know that's one of your areas? How can silicon photonics help reduce the energy needs?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 11:18

I think one of the key features for silicon photonics is using optics to push in data. So the the major characteristic for optic is low energy, high speeds. There's a difference between pushing the optical data and the electronic using copper. Right, so pushing copper it requires a lot more power and energy.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 11:42

Why is that?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 11:44

Well, copper is a physical entity, right? Just compare light and electrons. So photons are running much faster than electrons through a medium like copper.

Francoise von Trapp: 12:00

So it's probably a lot less loss. Is it heat or energy loss signal.

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 12:07

Well, it's signal integrity right.

Francoise von Trapp: 12:10

Right.

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 12:12

When you talk about heat and also energy consumption, you're pushing copper and you cannot push at long distance, because if you're pushing at long distance, the signal integrity will decrease, whereas compared to photonics, the signal could travel a lot more and a lot faster. So the signal integrity perspective is much cleaner and more effective and efficient compared to copper.

Francoise von Trapp: 12:42

How close are we to implementing silicon photonics in the advanced packaging space?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 12:47

We are implementing it. I think there's a lot of talk about, you know, we are building parkable transceivers for the data centers. You know data going in and out and we're using silicon photonics for the interconnects. And you also heard a lot about CPOs and that's the next stage or milestone, that we're going to push for Silicon Photonics.

Francoise von Trapp: 13:15

What industries are we likely to see AI adopted in most? I mean, you're talking about data centers. There's also edge AI.

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 13:24

I think the AI application is so broad, right, it's almost cost every industrial or consumer market segment. The most exciting AI is in the medical field. You know, case in point, right, when you're taking a CT scan, there's a lot of data behind all the CT scan data, but with AI you can analyze it much closer and able to pinpoint exactly what type of a tumor or what kind of a disease, instead of putting a patient on a table and cut it up.

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 14:07

So, I think that's something that's most intriguing. Just imagine, right, it's very close to home. So you have something, you have an ailment or tumor inside your body. You don't need to cut it up. But AI could be able to analyze a lot of the so-called back-end data and tell you whether that's a good tumor or a malignant or a benign tumor, Right, right, and that alone is so significant.

Francoise von Trapp: 14:34

It's important information, you don't have to remove it if it's not malignant right. Speaking of another medical application, for instance vaccine development. How quickly we got a COVID vaccine was because of using AI right.

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 14:52

One of the key characteristics for AI is being able to analyze so much data. We have a lot of data but because of the computation power, we're not able to analyze all the data and try to tell which one is which. But with AI, with so much data in the background, we could extract a lot of information and make judgments.

Francoise von Trapp: 15:16

How about using AI this is my meta question using AI to build AI devices, ai in semiconductor manufacturing have we started implementing it there yet?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 15:28

Oh, absolutely. I think one of the keys is using AI to do defect inspections. You know when you do an RDL or a trace right, so a lot of times you're building so many layers on top but you want to make sure every single layer has good conductivity. So how do you do it? In the past, we're using optical inspection to inspect to try to find the defects, but with AI we could detect and fix the defects in upstream, instead of wait till the whole part are coming out. At the end it says whoop, it doesn't work. So that is very, very significant in terms of infection cause and also defect prevention.

Francoise von Trapp: 16:15

Now you and I have been around this industry for a little while and we remember before AI could be used in a lot of things. I mean before they were even developing AI. Are you finding that, with engineers that have developed processes and ways of doing things, are they excited about being able to implement AI, or is it something new that they have to learn and is it becoming a little? Is it a little bit more of a challenge?

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 16:40

AI has a lot to do with how you use AI right so the hardware part is the inference and also how you program it. We call it an algorithm. So you need to have both hardware knowledge and also some software knowledge. So as an engineer you want to learn both and the end result will make you very satisfied with what you do. You write a program and you use AI, using the hardware, to accomplish defect analysis. That alone is quite a satisfaction.

Francoise von Trapp: 17:21

So engineers still get excited about new technologies, even if you've been in the industry for a while.

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 17:29

Oh, I'm always telling people that I'm having so much fun and people look at me funny. I say what do you mean fun? You have to tackle so much technical issues, but the new things and new technology, that's what I mean by exciting. That's where the fun coming from. It's fun in a sense that it's excitement, it's accomplishment.

Francoise von Trapp: 17:54

Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Calvin Cheung, ASE: 17:57

Sure sure.

Francoise von Trapp: 18:04

So I'm here with Keith Felton from Siemens Digital Industries Software. Welcome to the podcast, Keith.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 18:10

Thank you, francoise, glad to be here.

Francoise von Trapp: 18:12

So we know you've been on the podcast before, but for people who may not have heard, can you tell a little bit about yourself, your background and your role at Siemens?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 18:21

Okay, so I am the Principal Technical product manager for the Siemens IC packaging solutions. I've been with Siemens for just over eight years, and before that I was with Cadence for 18 years, and before that I worked for an EDA company called Raycal Redac.

Francoise von Trapp: 18:43

But that's like many, many moons ago, okay, many years ago, okay. It's safe to say, then, that you pretty much know your way around IC design.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 18:50

IC packaging more than IC design.

Francoise von Trapp: 18:52

IC packaging yes, yes, okay. So we're here at IMAPS, yes, and Siemens is presenting.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 18:58

Yes, we are presenting on Thursday.

Francoise von Trapp: 19:01

What are you going to be presenting on?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 19:06

Talking about using early predictive analysis during package prototyping. So how, during package prototyping, you can use analysis tools in a shift left fashion to actually get better insight into how your package may perform when it's completely designed.

Francoise von Trapp: 19:22

So is it kind of like a simulation?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 19:23

tool. First of all, we're showing Innovator 3D IC, which is actually building the prototype package, and then we're using the Calibre technologies to do the early predictive analysis.

Francoise von Trapp: 19:34

Okay, and what does that do?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 19:36

So it lets you see how your proposed package assembly performs from a thermal and stress perspective before you've actually physically designed it. So you're dealing with what you might want to call a blueprint of a package, a digital twin blueprint, and we're using analysis tools very early to make sure that whatever blueprint you choose actually is viable when it is manufactured so what are the advantages of this to the customer?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 20:03

well, it means they can get a look at how it may function before they commit to that particular type of integration. A lot of customers today they put together an integration, whether it be on paper or using other EDA tools, and they really don't know how it's going to perform until they actually do the full physical implementation. And then they have to run analysis tools and then they find out there's a problem, there's hot spots, it's going to introduce mechanical stress which can cause the interposer or the substrate to flex, which can cause solder ball cracking. So then they have to go backwards, they have to do an ECO to address that problem. We're trying to prevent you doing the ECO. We're trying to let you see how it will perform very early to avoid a downstream ECO, because the further down the process you go, the more expensive it gets to fix it Exactly okay, so you're saving money and probably time and shortening time to market.

Francoise von Trapp: 21:05

Yes, Right, okay. So AI is a big topic of discussion here this week. It's driving the development in this industry. Right, Because we're the ones building the AI devices right. But we're also beginning to use AI to develop AI. So how is Siemens leveraging AI to help further develop AI devices?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 21:33

So Siemens has a huge portfolio of technologies for semiconductors and packaging. So there's different areas of using AI more than other areas. For example, our Solido simulation group are probably the earliest adopters of AI to drive AI-driven simulation solutions. So that's very well established. You know, in the area where I'm familiar with, we're using AI initially to help the tool make you better design decisions. So what the tool does is it learns from you, the user, so the designer is basically the source of the model. So it learns from the designer.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 22:10

How does the designer do design? And then, as you teach it and you don't really have to teach it it learns automatically. But it understands how you do design and then it starts to offer you different design ideas as you go through the design process. So it will offer you different functions and features and capabilities of the tool, saying I think this is what you need to do next. So that's where we're currently focused. The next area is using AI and machine learning, which is just a part of AI. You still need that machine model, which is just a part of AI. You still need that machine model. We're using that to help optimize connectivity optimization between the die, the package, the substrate and the printed circuit board.

Francoise von Trapp: 22:54

So when you were talking about digital twins, are digital twins a form of AI?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 23:00

No, a digital twin is just a model. It's just a model of your design and by having a digital twin it means you have an exact model in software of how the physical design will look. So once you have that, you can perform all different types of analysis. That analysis could be AI-driven, it could be expert system-driven, it could just be algorithmic-driven.

Francoise von Trapp: 23:21

I see Okay, because I think people start to confuse what is AI, what is a digital twin, when we're talking about using it in manufacturing.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 23:32

Yes, yeah, I mean the digital twin for manufacturing. Typically, manufacturing do not get to see the design until it's physically built Right, and so then, if they have some problems, you have to go back and make a change. With a digital twin, they can see that design when it hasn't actually been manufactured, but they can interrogate the design. It's like when someone does a holographic image of something right, it's not real, but I can see it in minute detail, I can rotate it, I can interrogate it. It's like having a 3d pdf file right, you can touch it, you can do a lot of thingsate it. It's like having a 3D PDF file right, you can touch it, you can do a lot of things with it, but it's not the real thing, it's not been made yet, but you can make a lot of decisions and trade-offs when you have that digital twin model.

Francoise von Trapp: 24:15

So that's different than a simulation. It's kind of like a simulation on steroids.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 24:20

Well, yeah, it's a simulation of something that is still virtual. Okay, it's not real, it's still virtual. It gives you the ability to do that simulation before it's actually produced. Normally, simulations are done on the real data that's going to be manufactured, which means you're at the end of the process. Right, I'm ready to tape out a chip. I've not taped it out yet, but I'm going to do verification and analysis. Well, we're letting you do that before you've even taped out. We're saying with a digital twin of your package assembly, you can now perform detailed verification, whether it's signal integrity, power integrity, thermal stress, design for test even. You can do all that at that stage. You're never going to be 100% sure it's going to work, because you're still dealing with a virtual digital twin model. But you're probably about 90 or 95 percent certain that it's going to work and then you're okay to tape out so cool.

Francoise von Trapp: 25:14

You know, we've been around long enough to know that it wasn't always this way no, you had to tape out do you think it's more fun for us than the new generation of you know students that are coming in and kind of take it for granted that digital twins exist?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 25:27

um, I think if you're a designer today that used to do it the old way is a lot of fun, because you'll probably find that a it's a lot more pleasurable to get your job done. You're not spending so many hours at the desk working on things. Um, I think for the young, younger engineers coming out, this is just the way it's going to be, right the same as when we started with schematics and things like that. They're going to start life with a digital twin. They won't know about before the digital twin.

Francoise von Trapp: 25:53

They won't know what an advantage it is to have a digital twin?

Keith Felton, Siemens: 25:56

No, they won't. It just takes it for granted. Okay, well, I'm afraid we're out of time, oh that's a shame, but it's always good to talk to you and to you.

Francoise von Trapp: 26:04

So we will talk to you next time.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 26:06

Absolutely Look forward to it.

Francoise von Trapp: 26:07

Thanks, Keith.

Keith Felton, Siemens: 26:08

Thank you very much.

Francoise von Trapp: 26:13

So my next guest is Vahid Akhavan from PulseForge, one of our premium member companies. Welcome to the podcast, Vahid. It's great to see you.

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 26:21

It's great to see you again, francois. Thank you for having us. It's been an exciting time and we're very excited to be here at the device packaging conference.

Francoise von Trapp: 26:32

So you're here as an attendee. We are, you're not exhibiting or presenting this week.

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 26:38

No, I guess one of the benefits and the challenges of being a small company is that we have to pick the best times to attend and the best times to present and with us kind of being present at the San Diego event and IMAPS more strongly, we kind of try to be a smaller event here at the Phoenix area.

Francoise von Trapp: 26:59

Okay, so what did you come here to learn, then?

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 27:03

So I just came here to learn very much device packaging, like everybody else. It's an exciting area to be in. I mean, there's so much going on, there's so many different approaches to solving a lot of these large challenges that we have facing us and with yield challenges and power dissipation challenges and integration challenges, we need new solutions and I'm here to learn kind of what's in the offering.

Francoise von Trapp: 27:30

Okay, so that makes me think that PulseForge isn't just in the advanced packaging space. You've been in other market areas with your technology.

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 27:38

Absolutely so. The photonic debonding technology enables clean, high-yield, reliable release of post-process wafers from a temporary carrier, and that can be accomplished in a wide range of different applications for heterogeneous integration advanced packaging, mems, iot. The sky's the limit how we can address that. The sky's the limit how we can address that. But advanced packaging does hold a very specific area of interest for us, because our photonic debonding technology enables such a clean release that the post-processing necessary for hybrid bonding or for other types of bonding, where you need such a clean, pristine surface, really leads us to use photonic deep bonding to a higher degree in these fields.

Francoise von Trapp: 28:28

And last year you won a 3D Insights Award for this, so we talked a little bit about it back then. Since then, what's been up? What's been happening for you?

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 28:37

So I mean, we were very excited to have one last year and I think it has really given us a lot of visibility in the field and that's been an amazing opportunity. Since then, we have been working internally to advance the process to increase our capability of debonding more adhesives debonding adhesives within a larger kind of ecosystem and enabling us to work with different materials and different architectures. At the same time, in parallel, we have been working with our integrators that have been bringing our technology within their ecosystems, and we have worked with a bunch of very exciting integrators across the globe that are kind of bringing our technology within their fully automated systems to enable full mass production capability to our final customers.

Francoise von Trapp: 29:33

Okay. So when I look back since we last spoke, there's been a lot of activities with 3D Insights members, which I love to see your members working together. I see news. You worked with Indium presenting a joint study on optimizing photonic soldering processes. You worked with Adia. They're using equipment from you for their hybrid bonding.

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 29:58

That leads to the cleanliness of our process.

Francoise von Trapp: 30:00

Right and then, most recently, you partnered with Global Zeus to introduce a fully automatic photonic debonder. Can you update us on that piece of news and since that's the most recent and maybe you can talk about some of the others, yeah, absolutely so.

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 30:15

Global Zeus is an exciting partner to work with. They have a global footprint, they are out of Korea, they have a significant kind of interest in expanding their temporary bonding and debonding capabilities and we're excited to partner with them. They're one of the partners that are releasing a fully automatic solution enabled by photonic debonding, and the exciting news is they're looking to place one of their fully automatic systems on an IDM here in North America within this year, and that's, I think, is one of the biggest kind of achievements that we have had with that partner. That being said, we have other partners around the globe and they're all kind of pushing to expand our foothold, and we believe that these integration partners are really the front line of how we get into the IDMs and OSATs and really introduce our technology and give us credibility to disturb this market that's very ripe for disruption.

Francoise von Trapp: 31:14

They are your integration partners and they provide the tool and you're providing the technology. In what form?

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 31:20

So we provide the technology, our flash lamp technology, in a form called the embed system, which is pretty much the flash head with our power electronics that enable to drive that. They provide the material handling and the cleaning and warpage kind of mitigation technology necessary to actually implement this. And they're the frontline service for us for both installation and training at the customer site, but also enabling us to have a much more global footprint than we have as a small company.

Francoise von Trapp: 31:52

So are any of your integration partners actually competitive with each other?

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 31:56

There are definitely areas of overlap between integration partners, but I think we have tried to keep integration partners geographically very dispersed so that we can make sure that to a large degree, we are a very international business here, right? So each integration partner knows their market very well so they are able to address that market very effectively. And at the same time, we have kept our integration partners to be very kind of their core competencies very dispersed, so we actually have one of our integration partners here, as shown today. It's ERS.

Francoise von Trapp: 32:31

ERS. Yeah, they are also 3D Insights members. Exactly.

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 32:36

And they focus on panel level processes and their core competency is in warpage mitigation and panel level. And we're very excited to be working with them because as we go with larger and larger panels, right as we move away from wafers, there are challenges that we just don't know right, and they have been in this field for a while. They know that, so they have a very good ability to address that. Global Zeus is based out of Korea. They have core competencies in specific areas as well. We have other partners that do taping processes so they can work with either tape adhesive or de-tape the adhesive afterwards. So there's a lot of interesting capabilities that these partners bring beyond just being a tool integrator for us, okay great Well, enjoy the rest of the show and thank you for stopping by.

Vahid Akhaven, PulseForge: 33:32

Thank you very much, francois, great to see you.

Francoise von Trapp: 33:39

So my next guests are here from our premium member company, ERS Electronic GmbH, and I'm speaking with Bernd Krafthofer and Florian Lechner. Welcome to the podcast, guys.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 33:50

Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Francoise von Trapp: 33:52

So before we get in to talk about what you're doing here at IMAPS this year, tell me a little bit about yourselves and your role at the company.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 34:00

I am the sales and marketing director for yourselves and your role at the company. I am the sales and marketing director for the United States, for the Americas based in Dallas, texas, okay.

Florian Lechner: 34:08

And Florian. I'm the process engineer. In Barbing, Germany. I'm the leader for the competence centers.

Francoise von Trapp: 34:16

Okay, so you recently joined ERS, just in the last year or so.

Florian Lechner: 34:22

Yes, one year ago.

Francoise von Trapp: 34:23

One year ago. This is our first time meeting, so it's nice to meet you, Bernd. We've talked before a couple times on the podcast.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 34:30

Yes, we have. This is the second time.

Francoise von Trapp: 34:32

Second time, Second time yeah, so we're here at IMAPS DPC and you are exhibiting.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 34:37

Yes, we're at booth 411.

Francoise von Trapp: 34:40

Okay, what are you noticing this year? That's a little bit different than the past.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 34:46

So I hear that more people are here. It seems like that people like the location better because it's closer to where companies are Right.

Francoise von Trapp: 35:02

The last couple of years it was like 45-50 minutes away. So you have some big news recently, florian, that you just had your grand opening at the Coffin Hood Center in Barbing, germany.

Florian Lechner: 35:11

Yes.

Francoise von Trapp: 35:11

Can you tell me a little bit about how that came to pass and why we opened that there?

Florian Lechner: 35:18

Because we wanted to come more in the machine buildings and we need some room for showing the customer the processes. And we are able. If a customer has problems, we find solutions for that and then we can do it on our own machines. Find solutions for that, and then we can do it on our own machines.

Francoise von Trapp: 35:40

So is it a demo center then, where customers come and try out their processes on your tools?

Florian Lechner: 35:46

Yes.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 35:48

That's what we talked about last year in the summer, that we have a center in Asia, in Shanghai. We're building more in Asia, but we also have now the barbing site, with a complete team that works very, very hard on all these samples. We have, as we all know, in the world things going on. Not every customer likes to ship stuff to China right now, so we have activities specifically for me, as I'm based here in the US, and so it's the US and service the US customers. We have samples going to Europe and that's very much an improvement for us that we can offer that to customers, that it stays in the European Union. We also have an opportunity in the US where we have one of our machines with a partner company.

Francoise von Trapp: 36:36

Right, okay, all the machines are built in Germany, correct?

Bernd Krafthoefer: 36:41

Yes.

Francoise von Trapp: 36:41

Are some assembled in Asia?

Bernd Krafthoefer: 36:44

No.

Francoise von Trapp: 36:44

No, so they're all built there and shipped from there, Correct? So do you have to comply with any of the restrictions the US restrictions on China with having US content in your tools?

Bernd Krafthoefer: 36:59

No, none of our stuff is in any way, shape or form, regulated. We have our controllers, our power supplies, our computers. All that is free, free, available, and we can ship it to Asia, specifically China. It's not a problem at this point.

Francoise von Trapp: 37:16

So you recently had a webinar, Yara's Tech Talk. Stefan Kronert, who is on our advisory board, and can you tell me a little bit about that?

Bernd Krafthoefer: 37:27

Everything is always about spreading the word right. I mean, if you don't know that opportunities are available, that there's another player in the market. So we basically showcase with what we're doing, that we have metrology tools, that we have the warpage correction tools, that we have the debonding machines and, in that context, our VP, debbie. She presented all the machines and then we had Stefan who was going over more details about how the market environment is. So did Sylvie from CEA and Tanja from Fraunhofer Institute.

Francoise von Trapp: 38:08

So they were providing some information on the research that's happening in France and Germany, Correct? And then Stefan was talking about activities in Europe, Because advanced packaging like we're trying to grow the advanced packaging ecosystem here in the US is this also happening in Europe?

Bernd Krafthoefer: 38:28

It's a desire Because when you look at the market, when you look 30, 40 years ago, a lot of semiconductor manufacturing was done in Europe. It was developed in Europe, in the US and, with more and more, all the O-sets, as we all know, they all went to Asia.

Francoise von Trapp: 38:46

Right.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 38:46

And so they had the expertise there and only small production lines stayed back in Europe. Small production lines stayed back in the US for very, very highly specialized military applications, space applications, which they did not ship overseas. But as we have it in the US, europe has the same desire to onshore, again onshore and near shore.

Francoise von Trapp: 39:12

So, Florian, how is business then in the new facility? Is it growing? More and more customers are interested in the new tools we have now. Is it growing?

Florian Lechner: 39:19

More and more customers are interested in the new tools we have now the Luminex system we will bring on the market and we are still on a good way to find more and more customers. Is the Luminex a panel system. It's a wafer and panel.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 39:41

Yeah, it can be used for both. We introduced a long time ago ERS as a company was another German company. We worked on thermal debonding and that was introduced. It's in production today. We still have sold machines. A lot of people are doing it. What has grown now is there was then a trend of doing laser debonding.

Francoise von Trapp: 40:06

Right.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 40:06

Laser debonding brings other issues. It needs more time. We can have a wafer debonded, a 300-millimeter wafer. Correct me if I said what? Less than a minute.

Florian Lechner: 40:18

Yes, less than a minute Is this the photonic debonding.

Francoise von Trapp: 40:20

That's the photonic debonding. Yes.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 40:22

So you basically think about I mean, I age myself here. It's like I still have the old flash on my camera that you could hear charging up. That's basically what it is. It's a high-intensity flash, Okay, and because it's there, it's so fast and it covers a bigger area, so that's why we can de-bond it that much better, that's much faster.

Francoise von Trapp: 40:47

Well, it's always a pleasure to talk to you and to have you on the podcast, so we look forward to seeing you next at ECTC, ectc in.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 40:55

Dallas, all right, well, we'll see you then.

Francoise von Trapp: 40:56

Okay Sounds good, take right. Well, we'll see you then.

Bernd Krafthoefer: 40:59

Okay Sounds good.

Florian Lechner: 41:00

Take care. Thanks guys, thank you, thank you.

Francoise von Trapp: 41:07

On next week's podcast we'll be talking about why supply chain resilience matters for the semiconductor capital equipment sector and how to get it. Tune in to learn from Barry O'Dowd of elite member Cuninoggle and their special guest Kamal Aluwalia, ceo of Resolink. Participation in our member spotlight podcast is a benefit of premium and elite membership. Learn more at 3Dinsightscom slash memberships. There's lots more to come, so tune in next time to the 3D Insights podcast. The 3D Insights podcast is a production of 3D Insights LLC.